When Sisun Lee stepped down as CEO of More Labs after raising a Series B, he faced a brutal truth: being intrinsically passionate about your company's direction matters more than being the 'right' founder on paper.
The former Facebook, Uber, and Tesla product manager had built More Labs from a fun side project into a multi-million dollar hangover recovery brand. But as the company pivoted from a tech-driven e-commerce model to a Red Bull-style sales and marketing organization, Lee realized he wasn't the right person to lead that transformation.
In this candid conversation, Lee shares the hard-earned wisdom from his decade in Silicon Valley: how resilience beats intelligence, why the best CEO is whoever's most intrinsically motivated, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in an industry obsessed with the wrong metrics.
Watch the full interview now on EO's YouTube channel! Below is the complete transcription of the interview. Minor edits have been made for clarity and readability.
Key Highlights:
"Great things are never built by people who knew how to do things all along but by those who have the resilience and grit to try, fail, iterate towards their mission."
"Your job is always defined by you, you should do whatever is most important for the company in terms of making the product successful."
"The best CEO is somebody that's intrinsically passionate and the company deserves that type of person."
"You're gonna be wrong more than you're right. It's just OK because as long as you're right one really big way, it makes up for everything."
"Your job is always defined by you, you should do whatever is most important for the company in terms of making the product successful."
"The best CEO is somebody that's intrinsically passionate and the company deserves that type of person."
"You're gonna be wrong more than you're right. It's just OK because as long as you're right one really big way, it makes up for everything."
The Waterloo Dropout Who Found His Way to Facebook
Let's start with your background. How did you end up at Facebook?
Sisun: Hi, my name is Sisun. I used to be a product manager at Facebook, Uber, and Tesla before I founded More Labs in 2017. Stepped down as CEO after we raised Series B, and now I'm working on my second company called Ramper, which is a blockchain infrastructure business out of San Francisco and Seoul. 31 years old, and I love adventures.
So I went to Waterloo. It's an engineering school in Canada. Waterloo is pretty interesting because they have a co-op system which means every 4 months you have to do school and work, and work has to be related to your academic major. I didn't know going into school, but I really didn't like academics, but I didn't know what to do. After my 2nd year was completed, I actually dropped out for 1 year.
In this 1 year I wanted to just kind of explore and I got really lucky because during that exploration I interned at Facebook as a data analyst because it turns out that what you do in research, which is kind of like crunching a lot of numbers for professors, is a skill that you can do in places like Facebook as a data analyst. So I fell in love with the place and I wanted to come back to a place like Facebook after. So I graduated in systems design engineering, and I joined Facebook as an RPM. It stands for rotational product manager, and basically it's for folks like me who just graduated college without much product management experience.
So I went to Waterloo. It's an engineering school in Canada. Waterloo is pretty interesting because they have a co-op system which means every 4 months you have to do school and work, and work has to be related to your academic major. I didn't know going into school, but I really didn't like academics, but I didn't know what to do. After my 2nd year was completed, I actually dropped out for 1 year.
In this 1 year I wanted to just kind of explore and I got really lucky because during that exploration I interned at Facebook as a data analyst because it turns out that what you do in research, which is kind of like crunching a lot of numbers for professors, is a skill that you can do in places like Facebook as a data analyst. So I fell in love with the place and I wanted to come back to a place like Facebook after. So I graduated in systems design engineering, and I joined Facebook as an RPM. It stands for rotational product manager, and basically it's for folks like me who just graduated college without much product management experience.
Flying to Kenya Without an Itinerary
What was your most memorable experience as an RPM at Facebook?
Sisun: Facebook will sort of rotate you through 3 different projects as a way for you to learn how to become a PM and then you are equipped with a mentor at Facebook. I actually spent a lot of my time in emerging markets like India and Southeast Asia because the project that I was part of was called Internet.org.
My first job at Facebook was very memorable because I had a really interesting mentor. I had a lot of ego. I wanted to show that hey, I can contribute. I did some research trying to show him in our weekly meetings like, hey, this is what I found, this is what we should be doing. And then he asked me just a question very bluntly, what's the most impactful thing you could be doing?
The result of this conversation was basically the audience that we're trying to build for are people in remote parts of India and Africa and I'm here sitting in Facebook HQ in San Francisco with high speed Internet trying to come up with insight as to what the market needs and he wanted me to come to the conclusion that the most impactful thing I could be doing is to just go to Africa right now and I just flew to Kenya without any itinerary.
That was really kind of challenging in a sense that I just graduated and now I'm in Kenya and I don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing here but I'm supposed to bring insightful things back to the company. So I spent 2 weeks there, go to the suburbs, talk to people, understand the landscape, and then I actually came back and we had a lot to discuss, which was basically like, guys, the Internet is so slow that none of this even matters, you know, we have to radically rethink about everything.
My first job at Facebook was very memorable because I had a really interesting mentor. I had a lot of ego. I wanted to show that hey, I can contribute. I did some research trying to show him in our weekly meetings like, hey, this is what I found, this is what we should be doing. And then he asked me just a question very bluntly, what's the most impactful thing you could be doing?
The result of this conversation was basically the audience that we're trying to build for are people in remote parts of India and Africa and I'm here sitting in Facebook HQ in San Francisco with high speed Internet trying to come up with insight as to what the market needs and he wanted me to come to the conclusion that the most impactful thing I could be doing is to just go to Africa right now and I just flew to Kenya without any itinerary.
That was really kind of challenging in a sense that I just graduated and now I'm in Kenya and I don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing here but I'm supposed to bring insightful things back to the company. So I spent 2 weeks there, go to the suburbs, talk to people, understand the landscape, and then I actually came back and we had a lot to discuss, which was basically like, guys, the Internet is so slow that none of this even matters, you know, we have to radically rethink about everything.
Tesla's Growth Problem and the One-Click Vision
Tell us about your time at Tesla. What unique challenges were you solving there?
Sisun: Tesla was my job after. My job title was staff product manager under growth team, and the unique challenge at the time was because Tesla's growth model was sort of very standard, which is you open up large flagship stores in metropolitan cities. Once you saturate all of the big cities around the world, how do you grow anymore? And so the idea with the growth team was sort of how do we accelerate that on e-commerce.
At the time, Elon's vision was, can you just get people to buy at one click online just like Amazon and we had a really interesting entry point because Tesla owner gets a mobile app and so can we sort of leverage that into building some kind of a product driven referral model that allows them to invite their friends but overall the idea with the growth team was how to use optimize e-commerce on Tesla.com so more and more people come and buy.
At the time, Elon's vision was, can you just get people to buy at one click online just like Amazon and we had a really interesting entry point because Tesla owner gets a mobile app and so can we sort of leverage that into building some kind of a product driven referral model that allows them to invite their friends but overall the idea with the growth team was how to use optimize e-commerce on Tesla.com so more and more people come and buy.
What did you learn about being a product manager from these experiences?
Sisun: I think of my job as a PM and what I've learned simply as your ability to identify what's the most impactful thing to do to drive the throughput of the product team and then you just go do it. Then you have to execute on that whatever you identify, but you're repeating that continuously.
Chances are you're gonna be wrong and even if you do, I think you're gonna be wrong many times. In fact, you're gonna be wrong more than you're right. It's just, it's OK because as long as you're right one really big way, it makes up for everything. So then the question is how many of those iterations that you get to do is probably going to dictate your success. If one PM does one thing, if they're right, that's good for them, but if they're wrong, they're gonna fail. But if the other product person does it 10 times, chances are you could be right once out of those 10.
Chances are you're gonna be wrong and even if you do, I think you're gonna be wrong many times. In fact, you're gonna be wrong more than you're right. It's just, it's OK because as long as you're right one really big way, it makes up for everything. So then the question is how many of those iterations that you get to do is probably going to dictate your success. If one PM does one thing, if they're right, that's good for them, but if they're wrong, they're gonna fail. But if the other product person does it 10 times, chances are you could be right once out of those 10.
From Side Project to $200K Monthly Revenue
Tell us about your brand More Labs. How did that get started?
Sisun: The way this got started is actually a funny story. When I visited South Korea as an adult for the first time, one thing that I realized was everyone just drank. What was also interesting was that there was this giant industry for recovery for the next day. This was just really like a fun project. So in the beginning, there was definitely not a motivation to build a company, and I was still full-time at Tesla.
All of a sudden, side project is making like $200,000 of revenue a month. It's an arbitrage. In Korea and different parts of Asia like Hong Kong and Japan, there's already a lot of these products. It's just in the Western market, there just wasn't. Even though I didn't really have a foresight into how this would go, it just felt like a really fun opportunity to just go for it.
I was in Silicon Valley where starting a company, we had some amount of seed amount, probably around $400,000 to $500,000 that investors wanted to put in, so they were very much encouraging me and it seemed like such a fun wild ride and it didn't seem like that much of bad. So let's go for it.
All of a sudden, side project is making like $200,000 of revenue a month. It's an arbitrage. In Korea and different parts of Asia like Hong Kong and Japan, there's already a lot of these products. It's just in the Western market, there just wasn't. Even though I didn't really have a foresight into how this would go, it just felt like a really fun opportunity to just go for it.
I was in Silicon Valley where starting a company, we had some amount of seed amount, probably around $400,000 to $500,000 that investors wanted to put in, so they were very much encouraging me and it seemed like such a fun wild ride and it didn't seem like that much of bad. So let's go for it.
The Red Bull Revelation
What were those early years like building the company?
Sisun: First 2 years was definitely a big rush, you know, you're sort of captivated as a first-time entrepreneur. Every month our revenue is going up, we're hiring new people, we're trying to raise more money, and then the downs are also bad, you know, there's a problem with the product. We think we're gonna die tomorrow.
And then in the 3rd year, the pace was not as crazy as the 1st 2 years because at the time, I personally wanted to build a company that was more closer to a technology-driven e-com business than the next Red Bull. It actually turned out that was a bad decision. There's a reason why Red Bull, which is multi-billion dollar, I would assume that the majority of their sales are offline, not online, simply because that is the right format for that type of business.
It's the very same thing with things like morning recovery. You don't plan on getting drunk. You just when you're drunk, you might want to grab it on your way home. And so a third year is when we started to really put those perspectives into place and think about, OK, how do we build this company in the long run? Just because I came from the world of technology doesn't mean that's what we should do.
And then in the 3rd year, the pace was not as crazy as the 1st 2 years because at the time, I personally wanted to build a company that was more closer to a technology-driven e-com business than the next Red Bull. It actually turned out that was a bad decision. There's a reason why Red Bull, which is multi-billion dollar, I would assume that the majority of their sales are offline, not online, simply because that is the right format for that type of business.
It's the very same thing with things like morning recovery. You don't plan on getting drunk. You just when you're drunk, you might want to grab it on your way home. And so a third year is when we started to really put those perspectives into place and think about, OK, how do we build this company in the long run? Just because I came from the world of technology doesn't mean that's what we should do.
When COVID Hit and Revenue Dropped 90%
How did the pandemic affect your business and fundraising plans?
Sisun: In 2020, we were gearing towards our Series B, and that's when COVID hit. Our revenue was hit by 90%, you know, we made 10% of what we normally do, and obviously our chances of raising money went out the window because now it's like, well, we just lost 90% of revenue.
But the reason why we wanted to raise money was so that we can sort of dominate distribution, which means we were going to overspend money and lose on profitability to get that market share and brand identity out there. And so we're burning cash and so we need to raise the next round. And this is also when the pandemic hit, we really, really can't raise money.
The first impulse was we felt like we had to cut costs quite a bit, which means letting a lot of people go. We ended up not doing it, but that was a very tough decision for sure. The reason why we ended up not doing it is because leading into 2020, at the end of 2019, we've sort of formalized how we want to build this company which was, we started as this digitally native sort of tech-driven company to basically say, hey. The success model isn't like Facebook, it's like Red Bull, so we have to restructure the team and identity around being a world class sales and marketing driven organization.
But the reason why we wanted to raise money was so that we can sort of dominate distribution, which means we were going to overspend money and lose on profitability to get that market share and brand identity out there. And so we're burning cash and so we need to raise the next round. And this is also when the pandemic hit, we really, really can't raise money.
The first impulse was we felt like we had to cut costs quite a bit, which means letting a lot of people go. We ended up not doing it, but that was a very tough decision for sure. The reason why we ended up not doing it is because leading into 2020, at the end of 2019, we've sort of formalized how we want to build this company which was, we started as this digitally native sort of tech-driven company to basically say, hey. The success model isn't like Facebook, it's like Red Bull, so we have to restructure the team and identity around being a world class sales and marketing driven organization.
The Hardest Decision: Stepping Down as CEO
What led to your decision to step down as CEO after the Series B?
Sisun: The moment of decision really came as we sort of wrapped our Series B because that's sort of like a relief, right? Now I've got to think about some more things than just how do we survive. As soon as we knew that we were going to shift the company's DNA from sort of this digitally native company into sort of retail driven, I wasn't sure that I was the right CEO because we had to become sort of the world class sales driven and marketing driven organization and I'm a tech product guy.
And more importantly, number 2, I don't think I had the actual intrinsic motivation to wanting to do that. I have a lot of books on sales and marketing and branding and at a certain point I just never read them. I don't wanna learn about this, right? And in my spare time I'm actually going back into tech. I'm working with my friends from the Bay Area to work on side projects for fun, and so those things were very much in conflict for me.
At the time we had with one board member which was from Altos. I don't remember the exact transcript, but it was something along the lines of the best CEO is somebody that's intrinsically passionate and the company deserves that type of person. And so if I'm feeling this way and I need to figure out who is the best person that can quickly make this transition happen.
And more importantly, number 2, I don't think I had the actual intrinsic motivation to wanting to do that. I have a lot of books on sales and marketing and branding and at a certain point I just never read them. I don't wanna learn about this, right? And in my spare time I'm actually going back into tech. I'm working with my friends from the Bay Area to work on side projects for fun, and so those things were very much in conflict for me.
At the time we had with one board member which was from Altos. I don't remember the exact transcript, but it was something along the lines of the best CEO is somebody that's intrinsically passionate and the company deserves that type of person. And so if I'm feeling this way and I need to figure out who is the best person that can quickly make this transition happen.
Finding Your Way Back After Stepping Down
How did you handle the transition and what came after?
Sisun: Thankfully we actually hired a leader in our company who was running our retail organization and it seemed like it was a natural progression for him to step up as CEO. So we talked about it, we talked to the board, and the whole thing was much easier because he rose to the challenge, and I think that's a testimony to his leadership because when he became fully appointed as a CEO, nobody in the company left.
So I think the transition took 6 months until I was very much off of my day to day. Even to this day I don't think it's gone, I still sit as a board and it's sort of very dear to me and anything I can do I'll help out where the vacuum was is I wake up and I don't have something to do and this is self imposed on me which was I've treated my own brand identity as being part of More Labs and that started to sort of go away so yeah I was pretty lost for a while.
I actually spent about a year exploring, I was sort of traveling to Costa Rica and Colombia. And just basically trying to figure out, hey, what do I wanna do with my life and I think novelty and exploration are definitely things I seek because it's an unknown and I think unknowns are really fun as long as it's what you deliberately want to do. It's when you step down, you realize how burnt out you were that you start to come back and I think as you regain energy that you get new perspective to figure out what to do. It was very clear OK, I definitely am going to do something else. I just don't know what yet.
So I think the transition took 6 months until I was very much off of my day to day. Even to this day I don't think it's gone, I still sit as a board and it's sort of very dear to me and anything I can do I'll help out where the vacuum was is I wake up and I don't have something to do and this is self imposed on me which was I've treated my own brand identity as being part of More Labs and that started to sort of go away so yeah I was pretty lost for a while.
I actually spent about a year exploring, I was sort of traveling to Costa Rica and Colombia. And just basically trying to figure out, hey, what do I wanna do with my life and I think novelty and exploration are definitely things I seek because it's an unknown and I think unknowns are really fun as long as it's what you deliberately want to do. It's when you step down, you realize how burnt out you were that you start to come back and I think as you regain energy that you get new perspective to figure out what to do. It was very clear OK, I definitely am going to do something else. I just don't know what yet.
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