Nov 24, 2024
Why Alignment Breaks $5B Companies (And How to Fix It)
An interview with Jason Zintak, Founder of 6Sense
Founder Focused
"A mistake you make is thinking you're aligned, then you have too many alternate pivots or agendas." This brutally honest admission from Jason Zintak cuts through the startup mythology of seamless growth and reveals a harsh truth: even billion-dollar companies struggle with internal chaos.
Zintak is the CEO of 6Sense, an AI-driven sales and marketing platform that has achieved what most startups only dream of—growing from $5 million to $200 million in ARR over seven years, culminating in a $200 million Series E at a $5.2 billion valuation. With 2,000 customers and a marquee investor base, 6Sense represents one of the most successful B2B growth stories of the past decade.
But behind the impressive metrics lies a different story—one of constant pivots, painful customer losses, and the lonely burden of making tough calls that determine whether a company thrives or dies. In this candid interview, Zintak reveals the unglamorous realities of scaling a unicorn, from the vulnerability required to land your first customer to the harsh mathematics of why 'A companies deserve A people.'
Watch the full interview now on EO's YouTube channel! Below is the complete transcription of the interview. Minor edits have been made for clarity and readability.
Key Highlights:
"Go to too many events, good for the ego really aren't progressing. A mistake you make is thinking you're aligned, then you have too many alternate pivots or agendas."
"Customer acquisition in the early days is very tough because why trust? Why trust this startup with an idea? You need to lean on a relationship and you need to bring something of value."
"There's really one thing if the baton gets passed on your product to another executive, will they find value in it? At the end of the day, it's just does the product work and work well?"
"A mistake you make is thinking you're aligned and then you have too many alternate pivots or agendas, it is common to really just get distracted."
"I like to say we're an A company, we deserve A people. Why would you settle for anything less? A people want to work with A people, so you gotta make the tough call."
"Customer acquisition in the early days is very tough because why trust? Why trust this startup with an idea? You need to lean on a relationship and you need to bring something of value."
"There's really one thing if the baton gets passed on your product to another executive, will they find value in it? At the end of the day, it's just does the product work and work well?"
"A mistake you make is thinking you're aligned and then you have too many alternate pivots or agendas, it is common to really just get distracted."
"I like to say we're an A company, we deserve A people. Why would you settle for anything less? A people want to work with A people, so you gotta make the tough call."
From $5M to $200M: The Vulnerability of Early Customer Acquisition
Tell us about 6Sense and your journey to $200 million ARR.
Jason: My name is Jason Zintak, I'm the CEO of 6Sense. 6Sense is AI, big data driven sales and marketing platform. Last seven years we went from $5 million in ARR to $200 million. Completed our Series E, $200 million fundraise at $5.2 billion in valuation. That was roughly a year and a half ago. 2000 customers, a great cap table of marquee investors.
Customer acquisition in the early days is very tough because why trust? Why trust this startup with an idea? Everyone finds a way or a relationship for that first customer. Again it comes down to solving the problem. If you can help someone solve a problem and you find a friend, a fan, usually through a relationship, you might find someone to trust you and give you a shot.
Customer acquisition in the early days is very tough because why trust? Why trust this startup with an idea? Everyone finds a way or a relationship for that first customer. Again it comes down to solving the problem. If you can help someone solve a problem and you find a friend, a fan, usually through a relationship, you might find someone to trust you and give you a shot.
How do you approach that vulnerability with early customers?
Jason: Do you need to be vulnerable to these customers saying, can someone give me a chance? You need to lean on a relationship and you need to bring something of value. If you find those aspects, you can probably get a customer and then you have to try like hell to retain them, satisfy them, keep them, and make them better.
More than ever, we're now in a macro that's more difficult post pandemic, and that's all around high value, high return. Does it help me do my job better, more efficiently with a dollar return? And so we're focused on a mutual success plan with our customers. We set that plan, we communicate the plan, add innovation, and they'll give you honest feedback. Feedback is a gift, may be painful.
More than ever, we're now in a macro that's more difficult post pandemic, and that's all around high value, high return. Does it help me do my job better, more efficiently with a dollar return? And so we're focused on a mutual success plan with our customers. We set that plan, we communicate the plan, add innovation, and they'll give you honest feedback. Feedback is a gift, may be painful.
The Mirror Test: Learning from Lost Customers
How do you handle customer feedback and losses along the way?
Jason: We've lost customers along the way, but we get the feedback. I think the big mistake is not looking yourself in the mirror as a company, judging where you actually are in your journey, optimizing, changing, pivoting, adapting around that feedback.
In B2B world, it's all about retention and retention of a customer, retain your customer and can you cross-sell, upsell them? So what's the magic? Quite often we find your buyers leave a company, the next year you've got to. New your original sponsors aren't there or what do you do? Because the proclivity is new executive, new tool and so yeah, we're faced with that as well.
In B2B world, it's all about retention and retention of a customer, retain your customer and can you cross-sell, upsell them? So what's the magic? Quite often we find your buyers leave a company, the next year you've got to. New your original sponsors aren't there or what do you do? Because the proclivity is new executive, new tool and so yeah, we're faced with that as well.
How do you survive executive transitions at your customers?
Jason: There's really one thing if the baton gets passed on your product to another executive, will they find value in it? For us, I really focus less on the sales strategies around human intervention and tactics to relate with these execs. Have we proven enough value through product and delivery and adoption of it that when the next person comes in the door they can see it and feel it such that they aren't tempted to replace them with their buddies from another past relationship.
This comes back to our mutual success plans that we write with our customers. If it's documented and we achieve it, those measurements should be able to passed along to the next exec. At the end of the day, it's just does the product work and work well? It will be talked about inside the company if that's the case.
This comes back to our mutual success plans that we write with our customers. If it's documented and we achieve it, those measurements should be able to passed along to the next exec. At the end of the day, it's just does the product work and work well? It will be talked about inside the company if that's the case.
The Alignment Trap: When Startups Get Distracted by Their Own Hype
What are the most common mistakes you see in scaling startups?
Jason: Common mistake is sort of getting too excited in the hype of a startup and that around a fundraising a concept and it's all very energizing and intoxicating in a way. At the end of the day you have real work to do. In order to be a high performing team, everyone needs to get on board with our objective and go for it.
A mistake you make is thinking you're aligned and then you have too many alternate pivots or agendas, it is common to really just get distracted, go to too many events, really aren't progressing good for the ego, but not necessarily the agenda of the company.
A mistake you make is thinking you're aligned and then you have too many alternate pivots or agendas, it is common to really just get distracted, go to too many events, really aren't progressing good for the ego, but not necessarily the agenda of the company.
Building the A-Team: Why Culture Beats Product
What do investors really bet on when they invest in startups?
Jason: It's not necessarily about the product. We invest in teams. Many, many startups start with one idea and end with a completely different, which ultimately finds product market fit. Smart people, good working teams figure it out. But what they're betting on and what I can tell you I've lived, it's the team that makes a difference.
That nucleus of team and leadership is paramount, not only in the product but show up in the culture and the ethos of your company. By the way, it's one brick at a time to build the house. I joined at 30 and we're now over 1200 constantly message, what's important to us and people identify and those that identify stay. And those that don't leave, and that's appropriate because you can't be all things to all people.
That nucleus of team and leadership is paramount, not only in the product but show up in the culture and the ethos of your company. By the way, it's one brick at a time to build the house. I joined at 30 and we're now over 1200 constantly message, what's important to us and people identify and those that identify stay. And those that don't leave, and that's appropriate because you can't be all things to all people.
How do you handle the loneliness of leadership and making tough decisions?
Jason: There's no shortage of leadership books that talk about making tough decisions. Leadership is lonely. You have to make the call. Interestingly, I don't find leadership at all lonely. I like working with my team and I find us to be more of a family and I lean on them when I'm lonely, so it's not a big deal.
But the tough call is at the same time this isn't personal, this is a job, this is a business. Our responsibility is to be the shepherd of the investments. Financially, like the money we raise, as well as the people we hire, the true north should always be, is it the right thing for the business? And then everything else is explainable and makes sense.
But the tough call is at the same time this isn't personal, this is a job, this is a business. Our responsibility is to be the shepherd of the investments. Financially, like the money we raise, as well as the people we hire, the true north should always be, is it the right thing for the business? And then everything else is explainable and makes sense.
What's your philosophy on hiring and maintaining high standards?
Jason: I like to say we're an A company, we deserve A people. Why would you settle for anything less? Like why? If you're an A, you get A's, you are an A, you act like an A, and you hire A's. By the way, A people want to work with A people, so you gotta make the tough call. Decisions at age get more expensive with time, so make them quickly.
The Art of Informed Selling: Questions Over Presentations
With nearly 30 years in sales, what's the most effective approach?
Jason: Say most effective is to be, given my experience in sales nearly 30 years, is to be an informed seller. A lot of sales is not how slick can you be in your presentation, it's much more, what do I need to know? What can I question or get out of my prospect and customer to be relevant?
And so I think the biggest job in sales is actually being informed or asking the questions to help them solve their problems. As much as you can know, the more responsible you'd be in your outreach and personalizing your communication channel and the ensuing message.
And so I think the biggest job in sales is actually being informed or asking the questions to help them solve their problems. As much as you can know, the more responsible you'd be in your outreach and personalizing your communication channel and the ensuing message.
How do you build genuine relationships with customers?
Jason: If you're asking me how do I relate to our customers, that's really just back to be curious and ask questions. Most people's proclivity is to react first, really, you should listen and ask more. And then lastly, on asking questions, you gotta care. Too many people ask the question, don't care and don't deliver a result. And if you care for customer, you'll inevitably build a better product that delivers better results.
Breaking Through: The Emotional Core of Market Entry
How do you differentiate when entering a new market as a young company?
Jason: Entering a new market, sort of being a young team, you need to be different somehow, some way, and you need to appeal emotional aspect of why people buy, not the feature function. People react to emotions the brain works that way and what is your purpose as a company? What are you delivering the why someone would consider the new Acme company? And so you've got to strike a chord in your messaging.
6Sense or why new Acme company reduce to the core and simplify your focus. What resonates with the customer? Why do they buy your product or service?
6Sense or why new Acme company reduce to the core and simplify your focus. What resonates with the customer? Why do they buy your product or service?
Pattern Recognition: Why Challenges Repeat Themselves
What patterns have you noticed in your experience scaling companies?
Jason: I think in past experiences challenges seem to be similar and have a history of repeating themselves. How do we bring these products to market? What are the challenges in growing the company? There are patterns. We have people problems, product market fit issues, financing issues, etc. but what I've learned is sort of remain calm. These are normal.
I've learned to ask more questions that helps us get to the root of problems as we're trying to solve any of those matters. Patience for sure is a virtue. Exercise calm in the storm so that people understand that leadership and that resolve.
I've learned to ask more questions that helps us get to the root of problems as we're trying to solve any of those matters. Patience for sure is a virtue. Exercise calm in the storm so that people understand that leadership and that resolve.
What's your final advice for entrepreneurs building companies?
Jason: It's a big world leverage your network, learn, listen, be humble, probably the best thing I can say and have fun doing it. That should guide you and teach you.
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