Oct 30, 2025
One of the World’s Youngest Self-Made Female Billionaires
An Interview with Lucy Guo, Founder of Passes
Founder Focused
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At A Glance
Lucy Guo became a self-made tech billionaire before 30 by co-founding Scale AI ($14B) and now leads the creator-economy startup Passes. She doesn't like wasting time, so she starts her day at 5:30 AM, hitting a gym just five minutes from home, then works long hours into the evening with back-to-back meetings.
In this interview, Lucy reveals the one discipline that changed everything, why she believes in "manifesting" success, and how she's building unicorn creators in an industry most people still don't understand.
Watch the full interview now on EO's YouTube channel! Below is the complete transcription of the interview. Minor edits have been made for clarity and readability.
Key Highlights:
"My daily routine is essentially waking up between 5:30 AM to 6:00 AM every day, and I quite literally just roll out of bed and then I go straight to Barry's."
"I got my house specifically because it's 5 minutes away from Barry's and 5 minutes from the office, so I can reduce my commute."
"Why working out is so important because it puts you on a schedule. Your discipline—no matter how shitty I'm feeling, I will still get up and go out and work out because I know I'm going to feel better."
"I don't waste time scrolling through TikTok, watching TV, watching movies. And I think by not sitting still, I've been able to really be efficient with my time and invest it in things that make me happy."
"I got my house specifically because it's 5 minutes away from Barry's and 5 minutes from the office, so I can reduce my commute."
"Why working out is so important because it puts you on a schedule. Your discipline—no matter how shitty I'm feeling, I will still get up and go out and work out because I know I'm going to feel better."
"I don't waste time scrolling through TikTok, watching TV, watching movies. And I think by not sitting still, I've been able to really be efficient with my time and invest it in things that make me happy."
Chapter 1: The Mindset That Made the Youngest Self-Made Billionare
Let's start from the beginning. You've had this entrepreneurial drive since you were very young. Can you tell us about your early signs of being an entrepreneur?
Lucy Guo: I think I got suspended from kindergarten, to be quite honest. I think it came from me telling the teacher that what we were learning was dumb. But if you think about it, my parents are trying to teach me. I was going to abacus competitions, multiplication, division, back in kindergarten. And in school, they were literally like, "Here's the alphabet," right?
I was just very bored as a child. So I was always trying to figure out different things to do. I was learning stuff on my own, specifically stuff I learned was to make money. But eventually I discovered my love for product and I was like, "Oh, this is actually really fun."
You could see glimpses of it where I tried to start my own virtual pet site after being addicted to Neopets, and I was playing a lot of online video games, so I was figuring out how to start my own online arcade game website.
I was just very bored as a child. So I was always trying to figure out different things to do. I was learning stuff on my own, specifically stuff I learned was to make money. But eventually I discovered my love for product and I was like, "Oh, this is actually really fun."
You could see glimpses of it where I tried to start my own virtual pet site after being addicted to Neopets, and I was playing a lot of online video games, so I was figuring out how to start my own online arcade game website.
What really shaped your entrepreneurial mindset during those formative years?
Lucy Guo: What really shaped how I'm an entrepreneur today is that through the early stages of me making money, my parents found all of my hidden cash and would take it away. So then I was like, "I have to figure out how they don't take away cash."
PayPal would come out and then you could just go buy a Visa debit card, open up a PayPal account, and that's when I started learning how to make money on the Internet. That's when I got curious about building my own websites and that led to hackathons.
I would say the turning point of real entrepreneurship and wanting to build lasting companies, more than just bots, was at these hackathons where suddenly I was exposed to the startup world and I was like, "Wow, I can build apps that millions of people use. This is really, really cool."
PayPal would come out and then you could just go buy a Visa debit card, open up a PayPal account, and that's when I started learning how to make money on the Internet. That's when I got curious about building my own websites and that led to hackathons.
I would say the turning point of real entrepreneurship and wanting to build lasting companies, more than just bots, was at these hackathons where suddenly I was exposed to the startup world and I was like, "Wow, I can build apps that millions of people use. This is really, really cool."
Against All Expectations: The Computer Science Pivot
Your parents are technical, but they actually discouraged you from pursuing a technical field. How did you end up in computer science?
Lucy Guo: Both my parents are absolutely brilliant. They're both technical. It was interesting because they actually really discouraged me from pursuing a technical field because they kind of imagined my place as a woman was to get married and pop out grandchildren, but they still wanted me in an intelligent environment to find an intelligent partner.
I think I ended up pursuing it almost by accident. I thought I was gonna be a chemical engineer because chemistry was my favorite subject. I loved AP chemistry and I was very good at it. But I ended up on this website, College Confidential, because I needed help with my college applications.
There's this random stranger who literally looked at my extracurriculars and said, "You're an idiot. If you want to get into the best college, just apply for computer science." And I was like, "I guess that makes sense." So that's actually how I just landed in computer science.
I think I ended up pursuing it almost by accident. I thought I was gonna be a chemical engineer because chemistry was my favorite subject. I loved AP chemistry and I was very good at it. But I ended up on this website, College Confidential, because I needed help with my college applications.
There's this random stranger who literally looked at my extracurriculars and said, "You're an idiot. If you want to get into the best college, just apply for computer science." And I was like, "I guess that makes sense." So that's actually how I just landed in computer science.
How did your college experience shape your entrepreneurial network?
Lucy Guo: My college days were like, I was going to a lot of hackathons. Every few weeks: M hacks, hack MIT, quite literally every hackathon I was like, "I'm going to go to." And then I made a lot of friends.
I say this because I might be biased, but when I was first hiring, the first people I went to were the friends I made in college, and they didn't even ask any questions, which is concerning. They definitely should have asked how much their equity was worth. But they were just like, "Yeah, we'd love to come work with you, YOLO," right? And that was because there was that trust that was gained in college.
When you're building your next company, your network is your net worth and you're going to be able to hire the friends that you made in college and you know they're good.
I say this because I might be biased, but when I was first hiring, the first people I went to were the friends I made in college, and they didn't even ask any questions, which is concerning. They definitely should have asked how much their equity was worth. But they were just like, "Yeah, we'd love to come work with you, YOLO," right? And that was because there was that trust that was gained in college.
When you're building your next company, your network is your net worth and you're going to be able to hire the friends that you made in college and you know they're good.
Why I Dropped Out of Carnegie Mellon
You made the controversial decision to drop out of college with just four CS classes left to graduate. What drove that rebellious choice?
Lucy Guo: I think if I didn't have a rebellious nature, I probably would have been the good girl that my parents wanted me to be and stayed in college, right? I knew I was hurting them when going to do this, but I think that part of the rebellious nature was "I want to prove you wrong and show you that I can forge my own path and I will be successful without college."
So I'm sorry I'm hurting you right now, but it'll be worth it at the end of the day. I don't think I ever doubted it. What helped me commit was just thinking: this is not a risk at all. College is always gonna be there versus this is a once in a lifetime opportunity and I'm gonna be learning a lot.
I feel like I'm not learning practical skills in college and everything that I've learned was through hackathons, right? So if I leave college and I dive myself in the startup world, I'm going to learn significantly more and be able to actually build products that millions of people use versus learning theoretical skills that I'm probably not gonna use in my job.
So I'm sorry I'm hurting you right now, but it'll be worth it at the end of the day. I don't think I ever doubted it. What helped me commit was just thinking: this is not a risk at all. College is always gonna be there versus this is a once in a lifetime opportunity and I'm gonna be learning a lot.
I feel like I'm not learning practical skills in college and everything that I've learned was through hackathons, right? So if I leave college and I dive myself in the startup world, I'm going to learn significantly more and be able to actually build products that millions of people use versus learning theoretical skills that I'm probably not gonna use in my job.
What was the reaction from people around you when you made this decision?
Lucy Guo: The reaction I got from most people was "you're a fucking idiot" from my parents to my friends to people who didn't know me. People were just like, "Yo, what are you doing?" A lot of it stemmed from the fact that I actually only had 4 CS classes left to graduate, like 1 year left, right? So the risk mental calculation didn't really make sense for others.
But for me, I was like, "What am I losing? I'm losing time, right? But what's the worst case scenario? I take a job. What's the second worst case scenario? I go back to college." I chose to optimize for that learning and optimize for being in a network of extremely ambitious, intelligent people.
My conviction was to optimize learning. That's been my number one rule in life. Even if you're leaving something and it feels like a risk, it's not that much of a risk if you're optimizing learning because your knowledge is always going to be worth something and the more knowledge you gain, the more valuable you are later on in life.
But for me, I was like, "What am I losing? I'm losing time, right? But what's the worst case scenario? I take a job. What's the second worst case scenario? I go back to college." I chose to optimize for that learning and optimize for being in a network of extremely ambitious, intelligent people.
My conviction was to optimize learning. That's been my number one rule in life. Even if you're leaving something and it feels like a risk, it's not that much of a risk if you're optimizing learning because your knowledge is always going to be worth something and the more knowledge you gain, the more valuable you are later on in life.
Snapchat Lessons: When the CEO Thinks Bigger Than Everyone
You worked at Snapchat during a crucial period. What did you learn from Evan Spiegel's approach to product development?
Lucy Guo: At Snap, I really learned how to think much bigger. When I first joined Snap, I didn't realize the vision Evan had for Snap, and it was very inspiring seeing his ideas on how he would eventually compete with Amazon, compete with Google, which no one even to this day thinks about Snap competing with Amazon or Google.
But to see him think so innovatively about product and not care about that AB test portion of things taught me just a lot about the importance of being open-minded and product-driven as well, and really about perfection. The lesson I really took away from that is just get to 90%. You don't need to spend 3 years going back and forth on the design.
I remember there was the zoom out Snap Maps feature that no one at the company wanted to build because everyone thought it was so dumb and he just kept on insisting it and it turns out he was right at the end of the day, right? It ended up being a very natural UX that people love and use.
But to see him think so innovatively about product and not care about that AB test portion of things taught me just a lot about the importance of being open-minded and product-driven as well, and really about perfection. The lesson I really took away from that is just get to 90%. You don't need to spend 3 years going back and forth on the design.
I remember there was the zoom out Snap Maps feature that no one at the company wanted to build because everyone thought it was so dumb and he just kept on insisting it and it turns out he was right at the end of the day, right? It ended up being a very natural UX that people love and use.
How did this experience change your product philosophy?
Lucy Guo: That really almost tells you that people don't really know what they want in the consumer field. Like it might sound like the dumbest thing, but you really just have to kind of give it a go. Hence why he was probably just like, "You know, just think innovatively. Don't think about all this research feedback" because if he did that, that would have never been shipped. But once they got into the hands of people, they realized, "Oh, I actually wanted this," but no one could have told you that.
When you come up with a product, spend 2 weeks designing it and then ship it and see how it does and if there's traction, then go and iterate and improve on it. But people will use products they want to use even if it's super buggy and the UX is shitty for the most part. So it's better to ship that 90% with no user research and then double down on the product if it gets traction versus wasting a month doing all this research and shipping it and it might fall flat.
When you come up with a product, spend 2 weeks designing it and then ship it and see how it does and if there's traction, then go and iterate and improve on it. But people will use products they want to use even if it's super buggy and the UX is shitty for the most part. So it's better to ship that 90% with no user research and then double down on the product if it gets traction versus wasting a month doing all this research and shipping it and it might fall flat.
The Scale AI Origin Story: From Terrible Ideas to Billions
How did you and your co-founder come up with the idea for Scale AI?
Lucy Guo: We were both working at Quora and I think it was literally over lunch, we're like, "Huh, should we start a company together one day?" I was like, "Yeah, let's do it." And then over winter break, we started iterating on ideas.
So we came up with a horrible one. ClassPass for clubbing. And you know, it got traction, but you know it's bad when it's only VCs that are subscribing to your service. And then we're like, "OK, let's go do something more meaningful."
So we pivoted to Ava, which is a healthcare app where we help you find the best doctors for a specific procedure. So it's like, "Oh, you need a root canal. Here is the best person to give you a root canal." Also a terrible idea, but that idea ended up getting us into YC. I think mostly because I knew we were going to get into YC because I was talking to YC partners before the interview and after the interview, and they're just like, "Oh yeah, you'll get in because you guys are both super smart." You're obviously at Snap and a Thiel fellow, and he is MIT. So we entered YC and then the idea was terrible, so we ended up pivoting to Scale.
So we came up with a horrible one. ClassPass for clubbing. And you know, it got traction, but you know it's bad when it's only VCs that are subscribing to your service. And then we're like, "OK, let's go do something more meaningful."
So we pivoted to Ava, which is a healthcare app where we help you find the best doctors for a specific procedure. So it's like, "Oh, you need a root canal. Here is the best person to give you a root canal." Also a terrible idea, but that idea ended up getting us into YC. I think mostly because I knew we were going to get into YC because I was talking to YC partners before the interview and after the interview, and they're just like, "Oh yeah, you'll get in because you guys are both super smart." You're obviously at Snap and a Thiel fellow, and he is MIT. So we entered YC and then the idea was terrible, so we ended up pivoting to Scale.
Chapter 2: 4 Core Principles of Winning Founders
What's your philosophy on leadership and team motivation?
Lucy Guo: The team self-motivates themselves, but it's innovation. When they see that we can ship a product in 2 weeks and it takes a large company that's stagnant years to ship a product, that's extremely exciting for the team, especially when you tie that product to actual revenue numbers, and I think it's just constantly emphasizing that.
That's why a lot of engineers choose to work at startups instead of larger companies because they feel like they have more impact. Impact is what motivates them because they're not going to get that same impact at a large company.
Leaders need to be doing IC work as well because the only way you can judge people on their actual job is if you do the job yourself and really it's all hands on deck. Nothing is too big to be done. So for example, everyone was on Intercom when we got a pilot for a new customer. Quite literally we'd have a war room with engineers, me, etc. and we'd all be labeling that data and making sure it's perfect.
That's why a lot of engineers choose to work at startups instead of larger companies because they feel like they have more impact. Impact is what motivates them because they're not going to get that same impact at a large company.
Leaders need to be doing IC work as well because the only way you can judge people on their actual job is if you do the job yourself and really it's all hands on deck. Nothing is too big to be done. So for example, everyone was on Intercom when we got a pilot for a new customer. Quite literally we'd have a war room with engineers, me, etc. and we'd all be labeling that data and making sure it's perfect.
How do you maintain this hands-on approach while scaling?
Lucy Guo: We really emphasize nothing is below you. You're going to do what's best for the company and if your time is best being spent helping close this deal, then you're going to do that.
So let's say you're running customer support and you're not doing the customer support tickets yourself, you're not going to know if your customer support reps are answering them fast enough, giving the correct answers or if it's not an obvious answer, should they know the answer to this, or is it something more upset. And you really only get that muscle if you do the work.
So let's say you're running customer support and you're not doing the customer support tickets yourself, you're not going to know if your customer support reps are answering them fast enough, giving the correct answers or if it's not an obvious answer, should they know the answer to this, or is it something more upset. And you really only get that muscle if you do the work.
Chapter 3: Don't Build If You're Not Obsessed
You've now moved into the creator economy with Passes. What inspired you to make this pivot?
Lucy Guo: So I would say it was a mix of things. What inspired me was actually living with all the founders. The energy definitely grew on me, and I wanted these founders to start Passes, but no one would do it. And then around the same time, I had a friend who asked me to be CEO of his AI company, and I kind of sat on it. I kind of got excited, right? I was like, "Oh my God, I feel ready to be a founder again."
I think a lot of the reason why I wasn't, I didn't do it sooner was because I was scared of failure. But I finally got to a point where I was like, "You know what, if I fail, whatever, it doesn't matter. My life is gonna be fine. Most people don't build two successful startups. Don't be scared of failure. Just go and do the thing, right?"
And I didn't feel like doing an AI company. Again, to be quite honest, I was like, "I did B2B Enterprise. I know how it works, but I would rather—if I'm doing a second company and risking failure, at least have fun doing it." And I had always been attracted to consumer. Snap was one of the most fun experiences of my life. So I just knew I wanted to be consumer and I've been sitting on this idea for a little bit.
I think a lot of the reason why I wasn't, I didn't do it sooner was because I was scared of failure. But I finally got to a point where I was like, "You know what, if I fail, whatever, it doesn't matter. My life is gonna be fine. Most people don't build two successful startups. Don't be scared of failure. Just go and do the thing, right?"
And I didn't feel like doing an AI company. Again, to be quite honest, I was like, "I did B2B Enterprise. I know how it works, but I would rather—if I'm doing a second company and risking failure, at least have fun doing it." And I had always been attracted to consumer. Snap was one of the most fun experiences of my life. So I just knew I wanted to be consumer and I've been sitting on this idea for a little bit.
What's your vision for the future of the creator economy?
Lucy Guo: I think that AI is really going to help creators be co-pilots. I see more creators becoming entrepreneurs. More kids want to be creators than ever before. So I think the creator economy is going to grow, but also the creator marketing spend is going up in pretty much every country.
I think this is the fact people are realizing their audience and the reach you get is a much stronger spending it on creator marketing versus on ads. So because of this, we're going to see more creators work so closely with brands that they're essentially considered co-founders or start their own brands, which is why I think unicorn creators are possible and we're excited to help them either get access to the best brands and get that equity for long-term generational wealth, or if it makes sense to help them build that next product.
When you look at the largest creators, they really are unicorns. For example, Kim Kardashian built Skims. Logan Paul built Prime, Mr. Beast with Feastables. I'm excited for us to eventually build a unicorn creator.
I think this is the fact people are realizing their audience and the reach you get is a much stronger spending it on creator marketing versus on ads. So because of this, we're going to see more creators work so closely with brands that they're essentially considered co-founders or start their own brands, which is why I think unicorn creators are possible and we're excited to help them either get access to the best brands and get that equity for long-term generational wealth, or if it makes sense to help them build that next product.
When you look at the largest creators, they really are unicorns. For example, Kim Kardashian built Skims. Logan Paul built Prime, Mr. Beast with Feastables. I'm excited for us to eventually build a unicorn creator.
Manifesting Success: The Power of Positive Energy
Looking back, what advice would you give to your 20-year-old self?
Lucy Guo: If 20-year-old me could go back in time, I would stop complaining about some of the people I work with and just start really getting to know them better and uplifting them. Why do I think so? I think that in general, most companies are very gossipy, right? So if you're complaining about people, it just gets around and then it drives them away, obviously because they hear about complaints. No one wants to be talked badly about.
And I think the best work environments and the most positive ones are when you are everyone's cheerleader. So I think I would have spent more effort seeing the good in people.
And I think the best work environments and the most positive ones are when you are everyone's cheerleader. So I think I would have spent more effort seeing the good in people.
You mentioned believing in manifestation. How does that play into your success?
Lucy Guo: This is gonna sound very LA, but I feel like I have manifested everything in my life and because I'm focused so much on positive energy, I feel like as long as I put in that hard work to bring my dreams to life and surround myself with positive people, anything is possible. So cheesy, but I really do believe that's true.
And I have the best friends in the world that are constantly around me and encouraging me and really doing whatever they can to help. They'll go out of their way. They're truly incredible. And I think that when I have such positive people around me, I only look at upside.
And I have the best friends in the world that are constantly around me and encouraging me and really doing whatever they can to help. They'll go out of their way. They're truly incredible. And I think that when I have such positive people around me, I only look at upside.
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